Green Tea Forum

Hebing · White Belt Joined: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 26

Hey everyone,
I have learned to make an excellent pot of Miyabi sencha, but I am having trouble with my second infusion. It is very weak. When making my first infusion I always preheat the teapot, I noticed that it makes the tea too weak if you don’t preheat. I brew my first infusion at 165 degrease for two minutes. My problem is when I make my second infusion, I can’t preheat the pot, so do I use much hotter water? If so, what temperature is best?

Thanks!

Ryan · Sensei Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 475

With the 2nd infusion you should increase the temperature 10 degrees hotter. So, that would be at 175. You could easily go as high as 180 or 185 for the 2nd infusion and see if that is even better for you. Naturally, make sure you are using the proper amount of tea for the first infusion to ensure a good 2nd infusion.

Also, for the 3rd infusion keep the temperature at about 10 degrees hotter from the first infusion (same as 2nd). Personally, I brew my 3rd infusion for about 60 seconds as I find this makes a better 3rd infusion than only for 30 seconds. The 2nd infusion I still keep at 30 seconds.

Chip · Posted: Apr 13, 2007 12:05 am Post subject:

Hey Hebing,

For me, the first steep is the most aromatic and the second is the most flavorful...this includes Miyabi.

When I make fine sencha such as Miyabi, I try to continue the session without letting the leaves fully cool. I think this is why I consistantly get 5 steeps. So, while I am enjoying my first steep, I start my second...and so on. So, the leaves never cool very much. As a result, I usually only increase temp around 5* F going from the 1st steep to the second...and then the third I use 180*. The 4th, whatever the temp in the kettle is by now, around 190...and boiling water for my 5th.

If your leaves cool, by all means add even higher temp water like Ryan says!

How long are you brewing your second steep, 30 seconds should be good.

Let us know how you make out.

Hebing · White Belt Joined: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 26

My second infusions have been so much better with all of your advice!
I shortened my time between infusions and used hotter water and the results were excellent.

Thanks!!!

Chip · Posted: Apr 14, 2007 12:52 am Post subject:

That is great!!!

greenisgood · Black Belt Joined: 20 Jan 2008 Posts: 116

I agree Chip, I can get much better quality third steepings if I resteep while the leaves are still warm. I am not a very careful brewer (I don't weigh leaves or measure amount of water) but I can usually get more than two really good steepings if they're within the same 20 min or so of eachother. If I get side tracked and leave it for a couple hours, the leaves are better off in the garden.

britt · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 181

I was not able to get a decent third infusion from Miyabi or Fukamashi Supreme even though others claimed as many as five. Although I question the value of infusing more than two times, I did experiment a bit.

A Japanese tea dealer had instructions posted that are contrary to what everyone else says, but I found them useful for the two teas listed above. The point is to get the leaves to open and one reason the first infusion is usually very light is because they're not fully opened.

They suggested not preheating the pot but using hotter water for the first infusion. Hot/boiling water into the cups and immediately into the pot, leaving it until the leaves are fully open, regardless of the time it takes.

They actually recommended using cooler water for the second infusion. Hot/boiling water into the cups, let sit until cool enough, empty into the pot and immediately pour back into the cups. Their point is that if the leaves are fully open, the second infusion doesn't need any time.

They made no mention of a third infusion, and usually I don't bother with it, but I tried it and did get a better third infusion for Miyabi and Fukamashi Supreme when using this method.

Kevangogh · Forum God Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 928 Location: Japan

I always work towards making the first infusion the best, the second infusion the second best, etc. Personally, I don't want to compromise the taste of first infusion just so I can achieve a better second.

Chip · Posted: Jan 28, 2008 4:20 am Post subject:

Master Britt, I would not be too fast to condemn the practices of others, as I ENJOY every infusion. I always figure to each his own. If someone only wants 2-3 infusions, that is their pleasure. I honor and respect that.

My pleasure is 5, and I find the 5th to be a lovely, light sweet brew. Is it as tasty or lively as the 1st or 2nd, quite frankly, no. But it is a very enjoyable part of my personal tea ceremony. I like it, and to me, that is what is important, not frankly what you think about it. I have invested a lot of time and effort and fortunattely enjoyment in refining my brewing methods to achieve this level of rather subjective success. So, while I could have 400ml of tea per session with 2 steeps, I instead enjoy 1000ml, seems like I am ahead of the game.

I frankly grow weary of your condescending tone in many of your posts if someone's practice or belief differs from your own. Your way is hardly the "right way" as this is highly subjective at best, though I do not doubt it is best for you, and that I respect. I find value in every cup I drink and only wish you would afford others the same respect and honor they generously give to you.

Give me 10 tea dealer recommendations and I would venture a guesss you would have at least 7 clearly different brewing directions...some suggesting as much as 10 grams of sencha per 200 ml (which is a lot of leaf, most Americans seem to be around 5 grams, half the amount). Vendor brewing parameters are a source of many jokes because of this.

Ryan · Sensei Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 475

Depending on the sencha is how I brew it. With o-cha's tea's it's 1:30 to 2 minutes on all the sencha's at first steep.

One sencha, from another vendor, I use a whopping 5.5 grams per 5 ounces at 1 minute steep for the first.

Another vendor, for a particular sencha, I use 4 grams per 5 ounces at 1 minute with 170F water for the first. (2nd steep 20 - 25 seconds)

So... Each sencha seems to make its own rules for me. I I utilized the same rule for every sencha I drink, my results would not be optimal.

I have found that using a ton of leaf for some sencha's breeds inferior results. Some seem to go better with less leaf longer steep time while others seem to perform the best at more leaf shorter steep time for the first infusion.

This is what I have personally found.

britt · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 181

Chip · Posted: Jan 28, 2008 9:43 am Post subject:

I rest my case...have I once suggested that your preference of 2-3 infusions is somehow wrong, NO! There is no right or wrong here. You continue to imply that 5 steeps are wrong, though I doubt if you have as much experience at brewing 5 steeps as I.

But where pray tell did I mention anything about nutritional value of successive steeping. I simply get to drink my session longer.

LOL, I find I either strongly agree with you, or quite the opposite, not too much middle ground.

Be that as it may, I respect and honor anyone's methods as long as it brings them happiness. That is the ultimate intent of the leaf.

But your reply contiues to lead the reader to believe that 5 steeps are wrong. Intended, what does that mean? Who declares what is the intended use. Who determines what is intended use of leaf as far as number of steeps? That is ultimately up to the individual.

There are no absolutes, no rules, just general guidelines. So, 1,2,3,4,5 or even more steeps, what difference should it make to you, as long as you enjoy your 2-3 steeps.

britt · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 181

Ryan · Sensei Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 475

Because information on tea is so consistently unreliable I think it's premature to say that the nutritional value is totally exhausted by the 3rd steep. I am unconvinced of this. Though it may be true, I have not come across any convincing evidence that this is indeed the case.

I personally only do three steeps, and on some occasions four. Just making the point that I haven't come across any evidence that going beyond three steeps no longer imparts nutritional value. I have heard this on one website... Something to this effect. But then I've also read on another website where you need to steep for minutes on end to get all the nutrition.

As mentioned, it's hard to say one way or the other with any authority considering how unreliable the information on tea is.

syntheticpanda · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 198

I don't hold myself to any strict regiment of sencha steeps– I'll keep brewing until I stop enjoying it. Sometimes this is 2, sometimes 3, sometimes 4 or 5.

I agree, sencha does not last as long as oolongs brewed gong fu style, which often survive several infusions without a marked loss of flavor. That said, just because the last infusions of sencha aren't as spectacular as the first two doesn't mean I don't enjoy them, which is why I sometimes keep going past 2 or 3.

Regardless, what's the big deal here? play nice