Green Tea Forum

spacesamurai · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 204

Hey everyone. I asked Kevin, and he gave me permission to post this here.

An eBay company stole my work and is using it without my permission.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ORGANIC-CEREMONY-GRADE-1-MATCHA-GREEN-TEA-POWDER_W0QQitemZ110265814538QQihZ001QQcategoryZ38181QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

http://anotherteablog.blogspot.com/2008/03/matcha-source-matcha-kinrin-and-matcha.html

The company has ignored my emails and my requests to remove the image, which at the very least is misrepresentation as it is not the same product they are selling. I am posting this on forums in hopes that it might somehow help.

I'm not asking everyone to help flood the company's inbox with requests to do the right thing here, but I wouldn't mind.

This is unethical, unexcusable behavior for a business.

I have contacted eBay and reported it, but so far nothing.

FataliTEA · Posted: Jul 04, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject:

Chip · Posted: Jul 04, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject:

Power to the TeaPeeps!!! flamebait

Kevangogh · Forum God Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 916 Location: Japan

This is why I use watermarks on most of my images. I seldom run into it anymore since I started doing that. Shame that you have to though.

wehayley · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 195

I'd have my attorney touch base with them. Of course, my wife is my attorney, so it doesn't cost me anything. Still, if it's really important to you, it may be worth the time to at least threaten legal action. If you decide to take that route, I recommend you hold on to all your communication attempts, especially your email...

spacesamurai · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 204

That was fast. The shop took the images down this morning.

Sueing is just so...civilised. Not for me.

okimasa · Posted: Jul 05, 2008 12:19 am Post subject:

I can still see it on ebay Sad

The one with the Matcha in the sieve, that is

wehayley · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 195

There's a big difference between suing and threatening to sue. If you'd rather take another course, try Palladin Books, Dirty Tricks, etc.

britt · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 179

Congratulations; it sounds like this was resolved very quickly.

If you're going to threaten a lawsuit, it is important that you either have the legal grounds to follow through with the suit or that you can convince the other party that you do. Idle threats may or may not be effective, but well-founded ones usually are. Nobody wants to face the time, cost, or stress of fighting a legitimate lawsuit, especially if they're given an opportunity to correct the situation first at no cost to them.

If a "borrowed" picture isn't copyrighted, it probably isn't considered image theft so wouldn't be protected. Using it may be immoral but not necessarily illegal. That's why it's important to protect your work with a copyright.

My understanding is that all a copyright holder is required to do is notify the other party of the infringement and demand they remove the offending item. This notification should be documented. This just about guarantees prevailing in any legal action that follows. I have heard this firsthand from people on both sides of the debate.

wehayley · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 195

According to my sources, it helps to have a copyright but you do not have to actually copyright anything. If you write something or take a picture and post it somewhere there are "assumed" rights of ownership.

It's already been established that the offender has been asked to remove the image and has ignored Space's communications. He has every right to sue and very solid ground on which to stand... You do not forfeit your rights simply because you do not have a "legal" copyright. Sometimes the threat of suing is enough to get the job done; if it isn't then he has to decide whether or not going further is worth the trouble...

More than once I've sent a letter (or email) to an offender with a clearly placed cc to my attorney. I did not mention ther word "sue", but did mention knowing my rights. Every single time I've gotten the reply I was looking for without going any further...

Oni · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 15 Mar 2008 Posts: 213

Put watermarks on it it is cheaper, and they wouldn`t steal it.

Kevangogh · Forum God Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 916 Location: Japan

Even though you may be technically right, actually carrying a lawsuit through to the end and getting damages is not going to be easy. You can threaten & plead to your heart's consent - if they call your bluff, you will not win. This situation with Space is a little different because they are using them on Ebay, he has that going in his favor. The thief wants to continue selling on Ebay so he'll comply in this case.

I've had this happen so many times, I don't even bother with it anymore - I just use watermarks. See the rotation images above this forum? I'd be very surprised if they're not being used somewhere by now - it's going to happen, I didn't use watermarks on those because of the odd size.

This is also the reason I don't offer snazzy Shizuoka images as free wall papers to the public in general. For sure, 100%, if I did I would see it up on a competitor's website. Forget that - it cost me a lot to go there and take those pics.

britt · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 179

wehayley · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 195

I think my real point has been essentially missed. I am saying that if you appear to know your rights, and that if you appear to be ready to follow through in pursuing the matter, that's usually enough to get the problem taken care of. The vendor knows they usurped someone else's property, and the only issue is whether or not they want to stand on what they already know is very shaky ground. If they're in another country, they might stand pat, but if they're in the same country as Space, my guess is they will remove his image.

Britt, I don't know if you're implying something, but my wife handles estate and trust work, however her position in the legal arena leaves her with numerous friends who specialize in other areas. One of those friends specializes in copyright law and that's who told us about "assumed" rights. Just like you assume you are safe walking down the street, and you assume you own your car and that no one else has a right to jump in and drive it off.

I'm not offering legal counsel, only a little advice and a single possibility. I see virtually no downside in taking such a line of "inaction". As of right now Space has lost his image; please tell me what harm might it do to posture a little?

Kevangogh · Forum God Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 916 Location: Japan

My experience - about 50% will remove it right away if you ask, the other 50% will ignore you. If you pester them enough, maybe another 25% will remove it after *much* persuasion (like I have time for that). That last 25% - forget it. Are you going to get an attorney over an image that you will *never* recoup the costs for? No, and they know it - they just called your bluff.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - watermark your pics - it works real well.