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Manji2012
Uh, Can I Add Sugar?
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 14
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 Posted: Apr 20, 2008 8:52 am Post subject: Chinese Tea: (Know a good Webiste?) |
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Does anybody know of a good website to get high quality Chinese tea? I typically like Oolong Tea and I am searching for something that has a nice flavor.
Are any suggestions on a good tea pot for Chinese tea? Do you have a favorite type that is elegant. I currently have a Gaiwan and it is really nice.
What would be an excellent evening tea. For me, green tea is a morning to afternoon start your day kind of tea and not necessarily good in the evening although I still drink it in the evening from time to time. |
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Kevangogh
Forum God
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 904
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Apr 20, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I bought some good oolong from www.teafromtaiwan.com awhile back... |
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JR_UK
Uh, Can I Add Sugar?
Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 4
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: May 30, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Hi.
There's an excellent UK supplier called "Canton Tea".
I don't know if they do international orders, but they're very quick and friendly with email enquiries. If they do ship abroad, I'd definitely recommend them.
(Note: Link edited in this and other posts. Please follow guidelines regarding linking on this forum.) |
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britt
2nd Degree Black Belt
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: May 30, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese Tea: (Know a good Webiste?) |
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| Manji2012 wrote: | | Does anybody know of a good website to get high quality Chinese tea? I typically like Oolong Tea and I am searching for something that has a nice flavor. |
My favorite is Hou De Asian. They have a great selection of Taiwanese oolongs, from the lighter and greener high mountain variety to aged Nantou's and woodfired Buddha's Hand. They also have some mainland Chinese oolongs including quite a few varieties of Wu Yi and Dan Cong. I've been very happy with all of my purchases from them, and they are the only vendor I will purchase mainland Chinese tea from. Their Wu Yi Rou Gai is one of my favorites.
Although several on this site have been happy with the vendor Tea from Taiwan, I tried them to compare to Hou De Asian and what I purchased was so bad I threw $66 of it down the garbage disposal. I never tried them again.
| Manji2012 wrote: | | Are any suggestions on a good tea pot for Chinese tea? Do you have a favorite type that is elegant. I currently have a Gaiwan and it is really nice. |
The Taiwanese pots I've tried have all worked quite well. The Yixings seem to be more touchy on matching the pot and tea. I don't think either are typically suited to green teas or high mountain (lightly oxidized) oolongs. A light, thin porcelain gaiwan is usually best for green teas. Even lidded Japanese Arita porcelain cups have worked better than my Yixings for these lighter teas. If you use an Yixing for green tea, it should be thin and light, and have a compressed shape and/or have feet to keep the air circulating around the pot, allowing the green tea to brew without holding in too much heat.
For the more conventional and darker oolongs which are heavily oxidized, a thicker, heavier pot seems to work the best. This will hold in the heat, which seems to be beneficial to the darker variety, which also require a higher water temperature.
Depending on the specific tea, the size of the lid can be very important. Large leaves are not easy to remove from small pots with tiny lids. Certain Dan Cong's have huge leaves, making a large lid and pot opening essential.
The size of the pot is also important, especially if brewing tea Gong Fu style. This method uses a very large amount of tea leaves in a very small pot, with short brew times and multiple infusions. Drinking eight three ounce infusions in an hour or two shouldn't be a problem, but doing the same with twelve ounce infusions may be.
Yixings and clay Taiwanese pots should be confined to one type of tea each. I use one for all Wu Yi's, one for all Dan Cong's, one for all Taiwanese High Mountains, and one for all greens (when I don't use a cup or gaiwan). The pot may also benefit from seasoning, especially if they're used. It is hard to find new pots with good clay which are safe and chemical free without paying hundreds of dollars. Many of today's cheaper and mid-priced Yixings are of questionable quality and safety. All Yixing's should be boiled before use to remove any contamination picked up by the very porous clay. Some vendors actually tell you this when you purchase a pot from them.
After deciding on a tea type and noting the leave size (when fully opened)consider the following when choosing the pot:
1. capacity in cc or ounces
2. weight and/or thickness
3. shape
4. size of lid opening
5. type of clay
| Manji2012 wrote: | | What would be an excellent evening tea. For me, green tea is a morning to afternoon start your day kind of tea and not necessarily good in the evening although I still drink it in the evening from time to time. |
Assuming you want a darker tea with a stronger flavor for the evening, you might consider Wu Yi Rou Gai (more heavily oxidized Chinese oolong), Yunnan Golden Tips (excellent tasting Chinese black) or an aged Nantou or Zheng Cong oolong from Taiwan. I recomend these based on purchases from Hou De Asian, as teas with the same name can very tremendously in quality from one vendor to another. |
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Kevangogh
Forum God
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 904
Location: Japan
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| Posted: May 30, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Great reply.... |
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britt
2nd Degree Black Belt
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Jun 01, 2008 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Kevangogh wrote: | | Great reply.... |
Thanks!
I hope others may avoid the mistakes I have made. I have a shelf full of Yixings, most of which are unsuitable for the types of Chinese and Taiwanese teas that I drink regularly. In most cases, it's not the fault of the pots or those who made them. It was my lack of knowlege on the differences between Japanese and Chinese teas and teaware. I finally realized I needed to learn much more, so I did the research and the results have been much better.
I've managed to get very good tea-teapot matches for Wu-Yi and Dan Cong oolong teas, and a decent one for Taiwanese high mountain oolong. The other nine Yixings are currently just taking up cabinet space. An expensive but worthwhile lesson! |
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britt
2nd Degree Black Belt
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Jun 03, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| britt wrote: | | I've managed to get very good tea-teapot matches for Wu-Yi and Dan Cong oolong teas, and a decent one for Taiwanese high mountain oolong. |
After I wrote this, I received another Yixing that I had specifically purchased for use with lightly oxidized (15%) Taiwanese high mountain oolong. I had gotten decent, but not great, results using Yixings with this type of tea. I had much better results using a thin, lidded porcelain cup. Being incredibly stubborn, I still wanted to find an Yixing that was suitable for brewing high mountain oolongs.
The Yixing that had worked the best so far was 125cc, red clay (Hong Ni), with a compressed shape and conventional, flat bottom. It felt fairly light, but the clay seemed to be a bit thicker than I might want for greener teas, which is typical of most Yixings. Other than that, it would seem to be suitable for this type of tea, as it should allow the heat to be released quickly from the pot. This is desireable for lighter teas. However, as with all my Yixings, there was a heavy taste in the background that I just couldn't get rid of. It was not present when brewed in a porcelain cup, which yielded a much lighter, more pleasant taste.
The new yixing was very similar to the one I was using; 125cc, red clay (Hong Ni), and a compressed shape, although not quite as compressed as the first pot. This seemed to be better; although compression allows heat to release quicker, too much compression can keep the leaves from opening fully. The other things I noticed before I decided to purchase this pot was that the shipping weight was extremely light at 0.25 pounds, including box and packing material. I assumed that to be this light, the clay would be very thin. I also noticed that this pot was mounted on three feet, which would keep the bottom off the table, allowing better air circulation and quicker release of heat, both being desirable for brewing this type of tea.
Before using the new pot for the first time, I boiled it for 20 minutes to remove any possible contamination. I did not bother seasoning it. I brewed the first batch of 2008 Li Shan the conventional way (not Gong Fu style). I was stunned by the excellent results! I had never tasted high mountain oolong that was this good. The heaviness that had always been present with other Yixings was gone, and I felt I was really tasting the tea. I later tried Gong Fu style with the same great results.
I was familiar with Li Shan, but this was my first batch from 2008. To be fair, I pulled out the Yixing I usually use and brewed two batches, one Gong Fu style and one conventional. The difference was immediately apparent; the heavy background taste was there, and although still decent in taste, it was far inferior to the same tea brewed in the new pot.
Improperly matching a lighter tea to an Yixing teapot can give some pretty mediocre results. Proper matching is difficult, but can be very rewarding if the right combination is achieved. This may be one reason why reviews of the exact same tea by different people vary so much. We're actually reviewing the tea/teapot combination. In many tea competitions, the judges use porcelain tasting sets instead of clay pots.
Of course, the easiest way to achieve good results with lightly oxidized oolongs and green teas is to just use a thin, light porcelain gaiwan or cup. Not as challenging, but very effective! |
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Manji2012
Uh, Can I Add Sugar?
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Jun 16, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Britt, thanks for the reply, it was very informative and I really appreciate the website, it looks like I have an awesome opportunity to try some incredible Chinese tea without having to go there.
When I was in Beijing my friend's mom and I looked around and picked up a very nice Oolong tea. I love China for it's premium tea. The things I miss most about China is the food, the tea, and the people. I will definitely become fluent in Chinese after I become fluent in Japanese.
Anyways, you suggested the Wu yi Rou gui for a good evening tea which I am looking for because, Green tea is best in the morning or afternoon but not so good in the evening or at night.
What would be proper tea pot for the wu yi rou gui? Will a Yixing pot do just fine or should I purchase something else?
The Black tea you mentioned, yunnan "jinsi" I am curious about too. If you could suggest a good teapot for that too, I would greatly appreciate it.
XieXie
(^_^) |
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Manji2012
Uh, Can I Add Sugar?
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Jun 19, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Also, what teas are best for gong fu style? Would it be the tea that comes in those pearl or pebble shape? |
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britt
2nd Degree Black Belt
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Jun 19, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Manji2012 wrote: | | Britt, thanks for the reply, it was very informative |
Thanks for reading it! It's a complicated subject and my comments on it can be rather long.
| Manji2012 wrote: | | Anyways, you suggested the Wu yi Rou gui for a good evening tea which I am looking for because, Green tea is best in the morning or afternoon but not so good in the evening or at night. |
I drink green tea day and night, and I do the same with darker teas such as Rou Gai, so I never thought much before about categorizing tea by the time of day.
A friend recently visited a relative whose husband is Japanese. After what he said was an awesome Japanese dinner, he was offered some tea and accepted. He said it was so light he couldn't really taste it, and was told that the Japanese often lighten the tea as the day goes on. I don't know if that statement is really true for the majority of Japanese, but it makes me wonder if my assumption that you wanted a stronger flavor in the evening is correct. I will continue as if it is.
| Manji2012 wrote: | | What would be proper tea pot for the wu yi rou gui? Will a Yixing pot do just fine or should I purchase something else? |
It should be fairly straight-forward to find an Yixing suitable for Wu Yi oolongs (including Rou Gai). Some general guidelines would be:
Clay: Chin Shui Ni (light brown in color) or Zhi Sha (purple clay). These are usually denser and thicker clays, which will benefit a darker oolong by holding the heat in the pot instead of allowing it to escape, which is preferable for lighter teas.
Shape: Flat. The experts say flat on both the top and bottom is best for a flat, twisted leaf like Wu Yi. They recommend a rounder shape for the ball-type oolongs from Taiwan. In either case, there should be plenty of room for the leaves to open. I've found that compressed round or pear shaped Yixings work well for either. It can be difficult to find the exact pot you're searching for, so compomises must often be made.
Size: If Gong Fu style is what you want, I wouldn't go much larger than 125cc to 150cc, but this is also dependant on how many people you will serve.
The Yixing I use for all Wu Yi oolongs does not meet all the criteria above. It is high quality Zhi Sha that is a purple-brown color, it is about 200cc, the clay is quite dense and the pot thick and fairly heavy for its size, and it is pear shaped, but quite compressed. It worked great with Wu Yi Rou Gai the very first time I tried it, so I seasoned it and now use it for all types of Wu Yi with great results.
A porcelain pot or gaiwan takes the clay out of the equation and somewhat simplifies things, but size, shape, thickness and weight still affect the taste of the tea depending on which one you brew in it.
| Manji2012 wrote: | | The Black tea you mentioned, yunnan "jinsi" I am curious about too. If you could suggest a good teapot for that too, I would greatly appreciate it. |
I usually brewed the Yunnan Golden Tips in a moderately thick and heavy gaiwan. It also came out well in an antique urn shaped Yixing. I don't want to guess on this one, as I haven't yet chosen a permanent pot for black tea. In general, the darker the tea and the hotter the water required to brew it, the denser the clay and heavier the pot should be.
The darker clays like purple Zhi Sha are usually suitable for darker teas, while red clays like Zhu Ni and Hong Ni are usually best for lighter teas. Be aware, however, that you can't usually determine the clay type by looking at an online picture. It is important to purchase your Yixing from a reputable vendor who accurately states the clay type. Some even tell you which teas the pot is best matched to.
Last edited by britt on Jun 19, 2008 1:41 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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britt
2nd Degree Black Belt
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Jun 19, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Manji2012 wrote: | | Also, what teas are best for gong fu style? Would it be the tea that comes in those pearl or pebble shape? |
This question is much easier. I think any high quality oolong is suitable for Gong Fu style, regardless of whether the leaves are flat and twisted (Wu Yi, Dan Cong) or rolled into the ball shape (most Taiwanese oolongs).
I initially tried Gong Fu after a friend who owns a few restaraunts suggested it as being a noticeably better way to brew Chinese and Taiwanese oolong. I tried it and have used this method ever since. It has worked very well wth various Dan Cong's, Wu Yi's, Taiwanese high mountains, aged, high-fired, etc.
For best results IMO, you need a high quality oolong (not necessarily high priced), you should reduce the brewing time, and you should use a smaller pot. Water temp is also important for these teas brewed either style. Lighter oolongs typically benefit from lower water temperatures (as with pure green teas) and aged, high-fired, and highly oxidized oolongs generally benefit from higher water temps.
A good starting point is filling the pot 1/4 to 1/3 full of leaves, using somewhat cooler water, and timing the first infusion at 1 minute, with the next three at 1/2 minute each. After that, add time for each additional infusion. Different teas give varying number of infusions, but eight is not uncommon.
These guidlines are nothing more than a starting point; you should adjust to the tea and personal taste as you go. |
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Hushfield
Brown Belt
Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Jun 19, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| This might seem rather dumb, but what is gong fu style? |
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Oni
2nd Degree Black Belt
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Jun 19, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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First of all thank you Britt for the replys, I`ve learned from them, because I do not own a yixing teapot nor gaiwan, and I am not familiar with high quality oolongs ( I don`t count in local teashop experiences, they usually sell very poor low quality tea ), I would like to buy in the near future the Kamjove 8610 - that is a tea tray with built in water rezervoir, and glass kettle, steam chamber, it is the most professional teatray on the market for gong fu breing.
From what I have learned than yixing is suitable for mainly pu-erh, black, and dark (oxidized) oolongs, the rest green, white, yellow, and lightly oxidized oolong need a gaiwan to brew them correctly. I would like to ask for a site that is trustworthy, I looked at funalliance.com for yixing pot`s, and houde`s prices were too high, any recommendation would be welcomed. |
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britt
2nd Degree Black Belt
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Jun 19, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Hushfield wrote: | | This might seem rather dumb, but what is gong fu style? |
In general, gong fu refers to anything that one masters or excels in, whether it be martial arts or brewing tea.
Initially I thought gong fu brewing just meant adding more leaves to the teapot. That was incorrect.
Gong fu style brewing uses very large amounts of leaf and very short infusion times compared to normal brewing of Chinese and Taiwanese tea. Most of the time very small pots (usually Yixing) are used, as this style of brewing can give eight or more good infusions. That would be an awful lot of tea if a 12 ounce pot were used.
I usually use an Yixing between 65cc and 125cc for this brewing method. If I use the larger 200cc mentioned in my earlier post, I'm maxed out before the leaves are finished giving the maximum number of infusions. Some say that you shouldn't compensate for this by partially filling a larger pot because the aroma of the tea will be lost. These people believe the pot should be filled until overflowing, which will better seal the lid.
Oolongs and puer teas are probably the most common for gong fu brewing. |
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britt
2nd Degree Black Belt
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Jun 19, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Oni wrote: | | First of all thank you Britt for the replys, I`ve learned from them, because I do not own a yixing teapot nor gaiwan, and I am not familiar with high quality oolongs ( I don`t count in local teashop experiences, they usually sell very poor low quality tea ), I would like to buy in the near future the Kamjove 8610 - that is a tea tray with built in water rezervoir, and glass kettle, steam chamber, it is the most professional teatray on the market for gong fu breing.. |
You're very welcome for the info, but please realize that I am new to this also. I am in no way and expert, but I have learned a lot by making many mistakes and hope others can avoid making the same ones. I regularly read several blogs and the Art of Tea magazine because these particular people seem to be very expert in this field. They can help me avoid making more mistakes.
I'm not familiar with the Kamjove, but I have heard it mentioned. I'll check it out. Right now I don't own a tea tray, but this kind of brewing really requires one as it can get pretty messy.
| Oni wrote: | | From what I have learned than yixing is suitable for mainly pu-erh, black, and dark (oxidized) oolongs, the rest green, white, yellow, and lightly oxidized oolong need a gaiwan to brew them correctly. I would like to ask for a site that is trustworthy, I looked at funalliance.com for yixing pot`s, and houde`s prices were too high, any recommendation would be welcomed. |
In general I agree with your summary. I do use Yixings (and gong fu style brewing) for lightly oxidized Taiwanese oolongs (high mountains included). However, it took a lot of time, money, and effort to find a suitable Yixing that didn't adversly affect the taste of this type of tea.
Some whom I respect very much say that greens and whites can be brewed in an Yixing, but finding a suitable one is very difficult. A porcelain giwan or pot can greatly simplify things by removing the clay as a factor, but IMO size, shape, weight, and thickness still need to be considered for the tea type you will brew in it. Thin and light for lightly oxidized oolongs, thicker and heavier for a highly oxidized, aged, and/or high fired oolong. Most of this relates to the desire to retain or quickly release the heat from the pot. |
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