Green Tea Forum

spacesamurai · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 204

Well said, Wehayley. I agree and am glad someone said it better than I could.

Ryan · Sensei Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 475

I'm sure the Taiwanese tea is effected by air pollution, but so what? This is never what is brought into question. There is a distinct difference between air pollution and tea leaves being drenched in pesticides, whether illegal ones or not, in amounts that are many times beyond maximum allowed levels of residue. Such practices are simply unacceptable. The EU, Japan, and others would heartily agree with me.

Perhaps some of the same sort of activity has happened before in Taiwan. But, if I do a google regarding this subject I will come across a whole collection of examples of where this has happened in China. I have yet to find an article about the unsafe administration of pesticides in tea grown in Taiwan. Heck, it's even possible that this has happened in Japan and the USA, but I am still at a loss to the relevancy of this. The point is, anything is possible. And the bottom line is, who has earned the reputation of having good and consistent quality control?

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If you're going to compare the USA to a health utopia then I would agree with you, Wehayley, that the USA has some very serious issues. But if you're going to compare it to China, then I think you're going to be hard pressed.

And while many in the alternative health fields are concerned with the use of hormones and antibiotics, if I were to cite the myriads of health concerns coming out of China, this example would look like child's play in comparison. And, if you force me to drudge up all that information, I'm certain I could succeed at it, but I just rather not.

I see no problem with flouride in toothpaste or water. Yes, I even have heard that flouride in the water is a government plot to dumb down the population. Well, at least my health guru, Dr. Andrew Weil, see's no problem with flouride in drinking water. Obviously there are those who disagree.

Aspartame is a choice, and I choose not to buy it. Many Chinese are inundated by food that is simply saturated in unsafe levels of pesticides. Here, I can buy organic... And if I choose not to buy organic, at least I know, or close to knowing, that it is in line with regulations on maximum allowed levels of residue. This sense of security, from what I have read, is sorely lacking in China.

Again, if you compare the U.S. to a health utopia you have a point. But if you compare the U.S. to other places, our food supply is pretty darn good!

My point is, I see nothing wrong with pointing the finger at China for its atrocious practices in terms of agriculture or whatever.... I don't know why this has struck a nerve, I wasn't offended by it at all. Furthermore, it is my belief that one of the ways China will be encouraged to clean up its act is by people sounding the alarm on issues that are unacceptable. I tip my hat, for example, to the EU for having stringent regulations in its importation of tea. Do I think this has helped contribute to China doing a better job at ensuring more of its tea is not drenched in pesticides? Obviously!

And, if you want to get into a diatribe about the United States health issues, by all means go for it! USA is not a health utopia, and I don't know anyone who has ever made that claim. I do know, however, that organic farming in the USA is growing by leaps and bounds and the knowledge of things such as trans fatty acids seems to be making some serious headway.

Ultimately, I think it's a tragedy... I think it's a tragedy that if I buy green tea from China I have to be concerned about some serious pesticide issues. It is my sincere hope that China develops very reliable quality control so that this concern will not longer be an issue. Afterall, the original subject was focusing on pesticides in tea, and ware from China, was it not?

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spacesamurai · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 204

I think the tragedy is we never cared (at least not nearly to this extent) about what was going on in China before. As long as the shafting was one way. Child labor? Unsafe working conditions? Inadequate and unfair wages? Any moderately aware person knew this was going on, but where was the public outcry?

It was okay to exploit China--forget "China," its too big, it was okay to exploit people, children as long as we were getting affordable goods. I like the comparison to the Opium Wars; we in the West are still doing to China what we've been doing all along. IF China is shipping "poison" back to us, there is a certain justice in that.

What China is doing is deplorable, but I think we created this mess by not asking questions decades ago. Sure we want standards now that it effects us, or we know that it effects us. You blame China, I blame us. We've known all along someone was getting hurt; we only care if its us. Now we're just paying the price for years of apathy and avarice.

wehayley · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 195

Ryan, et al... I agree with SpaceSamurai. I would also add that I wasn't defending China, only pointing out the need to be aware of what's happening right here under our collective nose, and to say that just as you have a choice in whether or not to buy organic, you also have a choice on whether or not to buy products from mainland China. By the way, the products don't get here without US importers bringing them in.

Now, if I had to defend China, it would be very easy to point out the extreme use of pesticides such as DDT and many others in the US for years. We nearly wiped out our own national symbol, the bald eagle, not to mention numerous other species that have been dramatically reduced or completely eliminated.

I've seen documentaries from the 1950s that show mosquitoe control trucks driving down Main Street America, releasing a stream of pesticides while school kids followed it to play in the fog. Just this past weekend, I saw a news story about one of our many communities that has been devastated by the run-off and dumpings of big business. The EPA is just slightly less than a national joke. The greenhouse effect is real, the ice caps are, in fact, melting, we have yet to sign to Kyoto Accord, and still we point at everyone else.

Anytime a river catches on fire, you've got a pollution problem. And it doesn't end there - look at all the oil spills we've been through, the radiation leaks at Three Mile Island. The intentional release of chemical agents on the NYC subway system, and venereal disease intentionally left untreated in specific, marginalized parts of the population.

If you find time, read the Flexnor report - dig into the background of alumininum and flouride. There are certainly safer ways of creating healthy teeth. China is going through growing pains, just as the United States did...

The conversation has yet to hit a nerve with me. I'm not upset with anyone. I'm just choosing to point out the elephant in the room...

spacesamurai · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 204

britt · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 179

britt · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 179

britt · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 179