Green Tea Forum

Ming Xuan · Posted: Jun 05, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: Cold tea/ health benefit

Hey everyone, greeting from Tianjin, China.

Me and my american friend have this disagreement about green tea:
He likes to let his green tea infuse for a very long time, sometime he will keep it for a day and drink it cold, of course he lets tea leaves sit in the water all that time-
Me, being married to a chinese girl, prefer to do it the chinese way, so I let the leaves in the water too, but I won't drink the tea after it has infused for more than 30 minutes, or once it's cold if I'm not using a thermo proof container.
Oh yeah we're using long jing most of the time- I should have started with that.
The thing is, I'm not sure what happens to the tea after more than half an hour infusing, I only know that most people agree that about 85% of water soluble elements is present in the water after 3-5 minutes (it's an average, with 80°c water). I also know I got the Chinese on my side, they also think cold tea is bad for a number of reason.
But my friend really thinks that drinking tea the way he does is a lot better for you!
I was wondering if someone would have something to say about this, even remotely scientifical ^^;
Thanx for sharing your views!

Hebing · White Belt Joined: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 26

I could not imagine drinking tea that has been infused that long, let alone to drink it cold. I would trust the Chinese on this one.

Chip · Posted: Jun 06, 2007 2:16 am Post subject:

Hi Ming Xuan.

To be honest, I fail to see what the benefit of such a long brew time would be.

Occassionally, I will forget about my tea brewing and it may brew longer than 30 minutes. I will often for Japanese tea brew a 4th or 5th steep for a longer period of time.

One thing I read with Japanese tea, when making iced tea, one method is to pour room temp water over the leaf and place it in the fridge for over night.

wehayley · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 195

Based on the energetics of Eastern Medicine, I suggest avoiding cold tea - actually, the same can be said for all cold beverages...

Photiou · Posted: Jun 09, 2007 12:41 am Post subject:

I think oversteeping or steeping the tea for long time will only change taste - I would not worry about ones health. Actually there have been quite many methods of making tea - read for example "The Book of Tea" by Kakuzo Okakura http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/769 (section Schools of tea). It seems that ancient chinese even added salt to their tea.

Ryan · Sensei Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 475

I have heard that cold tea isn't good for the system according to Chinese medicine. I highly respect the effectiveness of Chinese medicine. But, speaking very personally, I can't see myself worrying about drinking cold tea (I don't drink cold tea, but if I did). If it does have a negative effect, it may be exceptionally minimal.

If one is to worry about what they ingest, I think it would be much more worth one's consciousness to think about fried foods, sugar, excessive protein intake etc.... But iced tea? Seems like a small fish to me - of course I could be wrong.

Chip · Posted: Jun 09, 2007 1:47 am Post subject:

...hmmm, interesting. Well, like Ryan said, there are much bigger fish to fry when it comes to health.

In extreme heat, like today, I still drink hot tea that has slightly cooled, but I drink lots of cold fluids too. As an amateur athlete, I know how critical it is to get cold fluids into the system when active in hot weather. It can literally mean the difference between life and death.

wehayley · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 195

Ryan is correct, there are bigger concerns than consuming cold beverages, tea and otherwise. Still, consuming cold drinks, especially when the body is overheated, can cause some problems, dramatic and not so dramatic.

Cold beverages, like anything cold (weather for instance) tends by nature to constrict things. This includes blood vessels. Keep in mind, the stomach operates at about 100 degrees (f). So what happens when you dump in a 32oz cold drink? The energy to bring that fluid up to body temperature has to "borrowed" from elsewhere. Where depends on the individual, but the bottom line is that it can have subtle effects on one's health. Those effects can snowball over time, and when the bubble pops, because it can happen much later, the correlation is typically missed completely...

syntheticpanda · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 198

From a purely scientific standpoint, the energy comes from your body's metabolism. The cold drink lower's one's body temp (which, as Chip mentioned, can be a very good thing if you are in danger of overheating), and the body responds by burning fuel (sugars, fats, proteins), which produces heat and restores body temperature to normal.

Also, the amount of caloric energy used up in this equilibrium is almost nothing in terms of how much we eat. That's why we don't see a huge "ice-water diet" fad right now.

wehayley · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 195

Actually, a few years back, there was a fad diet based on consuming mass amounts of cold beverages. The "energy" I refer to is something substantially different from the Western "scientific" notion (qi, chi, ki, etc.). I believe that's the same science that once thought the universe revolved around the Earth, the Earth was flat, etc., etc., etc...

Just kidding (kinda'). After all, that same science has brought about numerous modern miracles. It does, however, have many blind spots and subtle energy is a major one...

wehayley · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 195

PS: (which, as Chip mentioned, can be a very good thing if you are in danger of overheating), and the body responds by burning fuel (sugars, fats, proteins), which produces heat and restores body temperature to normal.

There's a flaw here - if you want to cool down, why consume something that causes the body to produce heat? This is rhetorical, but feel free to follow the string; doing so determines how far down into the rabbit hole you wish to go... heh, heh, heh...

Ryan · Sensei Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 475

I have no doubt in the existence of subtle energy and energy blockages leading to illness... Be that as it may, there is no guarantee that Chinese Medicine has an exact understanding and model of it. In my quick opinion, it is close enough to make it very efficatious. But, upon reflecting over it, I do have my doubts as to how exact a model it really is. There is no x-ray to the body to see how it really works... Chinese medicine has developed over thousands of years I am assuming and trial and error has I'm sure demonstrated much. Be that as it may, I do have to wonder how exactly close it is and how far from perfection it is.

Bottom line is it works. My point is a side one.

Chip · Posted: Jun 09, 2007 8:33 am Post subject:

...simple idiot science, drinking cold beverages on a very hot day is refeshing and simply feels good. One could argue in a slightly more scientific level therefore that the body has evolved over time to react positively to stimuli that are kinda good for it.

...going deeper into the rabbit hole, where by the way it is very nice and cool.

Also Weheyley, since our bodies are 98.6*, for the sake of argument and counterpoint (and not to be a smart a**), would it not therefore be best if we maintained our living enviroments at this temp for ultimate comfort. Of course not. So, drinking a beverage at less than body temp is not harmful in my less than professional opinion.

wehayley · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 195

Well, it kind of depends on how much lower than body temp the liquid is... drink something too cold, too fast and the body will give you a warning (brain freeze, cramps, etc.).

I've never heard anyone involved in Chinese Medicine claim it to be an exact science. In fact, just the opposite. Most practitioners would say it is at least as much art as science and far from exact. One of its strengths is in the fact that each individual is recognized as being unique. Beyond that, most of what practitioners of traditional medicine do is based on the simple observation of nature's patterns - i.e. winter leads to spring, etc., but occasionally Atlanta, Georgia gets an April snowstorm and I've see the temp in D.C. hit 80 degrees in January. But there are basic patterns that typically hold true. Because humans are part of nature, these sort of patterns are reflected in the body and observing them with awareness focused on any part can lead to knowing certain aspects of the whole (and vice-versa).

Now, allow me to assure you that there are people who can "see" inside the body. And there are others who use the other senses to "see" as well. There are a number of things I can tell about a person's health and wellness - specific states and patterns of propensity - based on what they email into this forum or the type of tea one prefers.

The way the body has evolved has little to do with any of this. We do lots of things that "feel good" at the time only to later suffer major consequences (think about your last hangover). Still, everyone is entitled to his or her own mistakes.

As for the 98.6 stuff, internal temp and external temp are too different things. If not, things like humidity would not play the role they do and you would not need to place the thermometer under your tongue.

I'll close by repeating what I said earlier: many consequences are subtle and the effect builds over time. Whether it's losing your hearing, becoming impotent, or developing stomach tumors, there are no coincidences... Please do not take this as medical advice; my wife is also my attorney... ha, ha, ha...

Chip · Posted: Jun 09, 2007 10:38 am Post subject:

...of course stomach tumors and many other disorders can just as easily be caused by pesticide/lead contaminated Chinese tea...this is as real as the sun rising in the morning. This is black and white. This will make you sick and even die, nothing subtle about this.

Yet China is "reluctant" (I am being kind) to fully address and solve the problem. It makes it a little hard to swallow Chinese medicine when they are just as apt to poison the food supply as offer a Chinese medicine to cure impotency.

If I was a lawyer, I would be all over this issue. If I was a medical practitioner, I would be extremely vocal about this.

*stepping of my soap box*