Green Tea Forum

spacesamurai · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 204

My father-in-law hates Japan, considers the Japanese to be inherently evil and culturally inferior in every way, and the other night my wife tells me how her dad was talking about how poorly the Japanese treat their women. Apparantly he gathered this after watching an episode of Real Sex or somethng.

Anyway, this didn't mesh with anything that I had read before, and I did some more research on it, and it seems that women's rights in Japan are very comparable to those in the U.S., or so the Internet would have me believe. I would like to hear from someone who lives in Japan or has been there. What is it like, really?

Kevangogh · Forum God Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 916 Location: Japan

They don't seem to care or make much of an issue of it over here. Everyone works in once capacity or another. Everyone seems to have their role and they don't seem that upset over it. It's not uncommon to see elderly ladies doing construction work, something you rarely see in the USA. Women also usually hold the purse strings to the family household, pay the bills, are in charge of the childrens education, and husbands typically hand over their paycheck to their wives. Yeah, they are usually expected to make dinner every night. This is after marriage, before marriage women work here just like anywhere else.

I would say it's harder for women in the workforce than men, especially after age 30. They openly state in help wanted ads "under 35", etc.

A lot of gals get married and quit around age 28 or so, for that reason companies don't want to invest a lot into them.

I know a few gals that run their own businesses, this seems to be where things equal out. Basically, it's a free country so like anywhere else, everyone is for the most part responsible for the choices they make.

If it was so bad you would think there would be more complaining but the only ones I ever hear complaining about it are feminists from abroad.

Pragmatica · Posted: Jul 27, 2007 10:34 am Post subject:

I read somewhere in the last couple of years that the fertility rate is incredibly low in Japan (i.e. at the current rate there will be no Japanese left in 900 years - the rate is 1.1 kids per woman, the lowest in the world; you need 2.1 to keep a population level). Part of the reason it's like that is because women are expected to both work, raise the kids, and do almost everything around the house, so they are actively refusing to have children as a form of protest. Heard anything about that first hand in Japan? The suicide rate is also very high there. If you want sources I can try and dig them up but mainly I'm looking for a perspective on these two issues from someone who actually lives there.

As a comparison most developed countries have below-replacement-level fertility rates (here in Canada it's 1.7 or so) and rely entirely on immigration for population level maintenance or growth but it's not as severe as Japan's issue, except perhaps Italy which is also in dire straits from that perspective with nobody having enough kids to keep the country going in the long term.

Overall the population of the Earth is too high, obviously, but the original populations of the oldest most developed nations are quite literally dying off. It seems to be an inevitable side effect of a highly educated population, great health care, and women in the workforce. While the current issue globally is excess population, the story after that will be the extinction of the original cultures and populations of the current developed societies if current trends continue/are extrapolated into the future. The loss of a culture such as the Japanese would be unfortunate indeed.

syntheticpanda · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 198

I don't have any personal experience, but I have heard a couple things from my dad who travels to Japan fairly frequently on business. One thing he noticed was a reversal in situations where western men typically defer to women, such as letting women order first at a restaurant, stepping off the sidewalk to let them pass, holding doors, etc. He also mentioned that when golfing, women caddies are discouraged from walking in front of the male players.

None of these things are infringing on women's rights, per se, but I suppose it could show a sort of male superiority complex. Now, I understand chivalry is a western concept, and I don't claim to know what I'm talking about, but at least the golf example seems a bit... disrespectful. Could just be my background though, and if the women there don't have any problems with the system, who am I to tell them how to be happy?

spacesamurai · 2nd Degree Black Belt Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 204

I just finished reading Kickboxing Geisha a few weeks back, and it was an excellent look into the roles of women and men in Japan. The situation is very complex. As far as women's rights go, Japan is a few decades behind, and yes, many women are fine with this; many are not. In metropolitan areas women are largely expected to quit their jobs when the get married or pregnant. Since this is the norm, there are few opportunities for women on the corporate fast track. I understand that the birht rate in Tokyo has actually fallen to 0.7.

Part of the problem are the numerous challenges to getting married. Oh its late, and I could go on and on. It's a great book, very fair, represented many different sides. If you're interested in modern Japanese culture, its a wonderful book to read.